Minutes of the Technical Sub Committee
Of the
Canada-United States Groundfish Committee
Thirty-Ninth Annual Meeting
May 5-7, 1998
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
Olympia, Washington
I. Call to order
Chairman Bill Barss (ODFW) called the meeting called to order at 1:17 pm Tuesday, May 5th. He thanked Tom Jagielo (WDFW) for serving as host for this year’s meeting. Barss noted that Barry Bracken (ADFG), a past member of TSC, had served on the committee for over 15 years. He presented Tory O'Connell (ADFG) with a commemorative plaque for Barry, with thanks from the TSC.
II. Appointment of Secretary
Tom Jagielo (WDFW) was appointed as secretary.
III. Introductions
Introductions were made around the table. A general list of participants was passed around for updating. The updated list of recent TSC participants is included as Attachment E. It was noted that Dave Clausen (NMFS, Auke Bay Lab) , Cal Blood (IPHC), Jane DiCosimo (NPFMC), Rob Kronland (DFO, Nanaimo), and Alec McCall (NMFS, Tiburon Lab) would not be in attendance this year. Representatives and others in attendance were:
Canada:
Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO)
Mark Saunders, Pacific Biological Station (PBS), Nanaimo, BC
Diana Trager, Groundfish Management Unit, Vancouver, BC
Lynne Yamanaka, Pacific Biological Station (PBS), Nanaimo, BC
United States:
Pacific States Marine Fish Commission
David Hanson, Portland, OR
Stephen Phillips, Portland, OR
Pacific Fishery Management Council
Jim Glock, Portland, OR
Julie Walker, Portland, OR
National Marine Fisheries Service
Richard Methot, Northwest Fisheries Science Center, Seattle, WA
Herb Sanborn, Northwest Fisheries Science Center, Seattle, WA
Mark Wilkins, Alaska Fisheries Science Center, Seattle, WA
Martin Dorn, Alaska Fisheries Science Center, Seattle, WA
Alaska Department of Fish and Game
Tory O'Connell
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
Tom Jagielo, Olympia, WA
Tom Northup, Montesano, WA
Brian Culver, Montesano, WA
Martha Rickey, Olympia, WA
Mary Lou Mills, Olympia, WA
Wayne Palsson, Mill Creek, WA
Bob Pacunski, Mill Creek, WA
Dick Mueller, Mill Creek, WA
Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife
Bill Barss, Newport, OR
Bob Mikus, Newport, OR
California Department of Fish and Game
Tom Barnes, La Jolla, CA
The 1997 TSC report, prepared by Mark Wilkins (NMFS, AFSC), was approved without amendment.
The 1998 agenda was approved with modifications. The terms of reference were reviewed, and approved as they stand. Richard Methot (NMFS, NWFSC) noted that there is a United Nations convention on straddling stocks. We should review the charter document of that group and look for commonality with the function of the TSC. Stephen Phillips (PSMFC) agreed to get a copy of the UN document for TSC review and provide it for discussion next year if the parent committee chooses to do so.
VI. Working Group Reports: Discussion (Full Reports in Attachment A)
A. Committee of Age Reading Experts (CARE)
The 1998 CARE meeting was held last week (April 28-30) at Sand Point. Wilkins addressed the CARE group to personally communicate with them on TSC and CARE recommendations and to express TSC's encouragement of their work. Bob Mikus (ODFW) was present. Mikus reported on the CARE response to the TSC recommendations and summarized some highlights from the CARE meeting (the 1998 CARE report to TSC dated May 4, 1998 is included as Appendix E): The status of the Age determination manual was discussed. It was published by Shayne MacClellan (DFO) and distributed at last years TSC meeting, but copies did not get back to all the age readers at the participating agencies. CARE formed a committee this year to look into putting the manual on a web site (the PSMFC site). A finalized glossary of terms for the age reading manual is now available. The WDFW-NMFS-DFO lingcod age reading exchange was discussed at CARE. In particular, DFO and WDFW discrepancies were observed and will be looked into further. El nino marks on otoliths were discussed; the consensus was that it will take a couple of more years to show up if it does at all. There was a halibut otolith exchange between IPHC and ADFG. Age reading of coastal pelagics was discussed. Kris Munk (ADFG) discussed using otoliths for aging lingcod. The process involves clearing and works well but is very time consuming. Jim Ianelli presented a talk about how age data and precision testing data are used in stock assessments.
There were four recommendations from CARE to TSC, and one recommendation from CARE to itself (see Appendix E). CARE would like to move to more of a hands-on format to work on age reading problems at the meeting. Also, CARE would like to consider lengthening the time of the meeting and possibly going to an annual (vs. bi-annual) meeting format.
Kris Monk was appointed new CARE chair, Brenda Irwin (CDFG) vice chair, and Bob Mikus recorder.
Barnes (CDFG): What is the TSC policy on coastal pelagics? Will we include them in the TSC meeting discussions and in the CARE process, eg. in the CARE manual? Barnes feels it is very worth while to have coastal pelagics included. Mackerel and sardines are not just California stocks. A meeting put together (outside the CARE process) to discuss mackerel age reading was very productive. Wilkins noted that the TSC focus shifted to transboundary species a few years back. Methot: TSC needs to separate the formal mandate of TSC from what contributing researchers are interested in. We don't need to have a formal place for pelagics in the TSC process to look at pelagics in the CARE process. Barnes: California participated at last years CARE meeting largely due to discussions about coastal pelagics, particularly Pacific Mackerel. Mikus: feels it benefits to have pelagics in CARE manual but the CARE group wanted official TSC approval to do so. The group discussed having a recommendation from TSC to CARE regarding pelagics, and a response from TSC to the CARE recommendations. Glock (PFMC): what is the TSC’s definition of groundfish? Halibut is considered a groundfish by TSC, but not by PFMC. Wilkins: does not see the need for discriminating between pelagics and groundfish. Jagielo: I like the suggestion coming forth from CARE to make the meeting involve more "hands-on" work. It capitalizes on the fact that the age reading experts have travel paid to attend CARE meetings. If plans are made ahead of time and structures are brought to the meeting, a productive session of hands-on work can be accomplished at the meeting. TSC should support the CARE recommendation to make the meeting more of a hands-on meeting. Mikus: some feel Dover sole has not been given the status it should have received at CARE in recent years. Methot: We should keep coverage of Dover sole going on at CARE. O'Connell: If funding permits a meeting only every two years, the CARE meeting should focus on hands-on work. Jagielo: Should the CARE meeting be held every year? Group discussion about holding an annual CARE meeting. Mikus noted interest was keen this year; about 50 people attended this years CARE meeting.
B. Pacific Whiting Working Group.
Dorn (NMFS, AFSC): The working group met in February. Saunders (DFO): The triennial hydroacoustic survey is planned for this summer (1998). One issue is, how far north will the stock go in an el nino year; it appeared to reach 56o N. last year. The NMFS vessel Miller Freeman will work jointly with the DFO vessel W. E. Ricker for the survey. The hake stock assessment will be conducted in early 1999 when the 1998 triennial survey results are available.
C. Yellowtail Rockfish Working Group.
Dr. Jack Tagart (WDFW) and Mr. Rick Stanley (DFO) submitted a yellowtail rockfish working group report (see Attachment C).
Jagielo: Lingcod age reading issues were addressed by conducting a 3 lab (WDFW-NMFS Tiburon-DFO) age structure exchange. The results of the exchange were analyzed by WDFW and the report was presented at the 1998 CARE meeting. There is evidence of bias between the labs; the largest discrepancies were observed between DFO and WDFW. Barss: TSC should recommend to CARE to further resolve the US-Canada lingcod age reading discrepancy. Also, do we need another recommendation for lingcod; yesterday, Rick Methot brought up the issue of how areas are included in the US and Canada lingcod stock assessments and that it would be best to conduct a joint US Canada assessment of this. Culver (WDFW): The lingcod transboundary stock issue is a big problem for PFMC management. Discussion of transboundary stocks is supposed to be a major part of the charter of the TSC. The PFMC will reach the US harvest guideline in August of this year. The Canadian 3C-N catch will potentially exceed the whole US Columbia-Vancouver area harvest guideline in 1998. Transboundary issues are not being resolved effectively.
B. IJFA Funding - Shifting to Nearshore Rockfish.
Phillips: The IJFA funding focus will now shift to emphasize nearshore rockfish. The Saltonstall Kennedy (SK) proposal was resubmitted for this year. PSMFC would like to direct money to the states for nearshore rockfish work. The new funds must be for new research; not to fund existing positions. We need data on nearshore rockfish that we don't have now. We also have Wallop-Breaux monies as a third funding source. All together, funds could be on the order of $200,000 to $400,000 per year. Yamanaka (DFO): what is the Canadian role? Phillips: To provide technical support and advice at meetings.
C. Age Validation Discussion
Agency lists of species validated and techniques used were discussed. CARE reviewed and updated a list at the recent CARE meeting (Appendix B). The group discussed species priorities for new age validation work. Mikus: 80-85% of the species aged are not yet validated. O'Connell: We are considering sponsoring an age validation study of yelloweye rockfish via radiometric analysis. Mikus: California will be doing Dover sole age validation next year via growth increment analysis with tagging data. Barnes: A student of Dr. Calliet's is working on validating age reading of Boccacio. Methot: A project to label sablefish with OTC off California now active again. Jagielo: Is blanket approval now available from FDA for work with OTC for age reading validation?. Group: No, there is a stack of paperwork and approvals must be obtained individually. Barss: What species should we recommend be validated? Methot: Would like to see shortspine thornyhead done, it is an ongoing concern. It has a big impact on management recommendations. Jagielo: How about lingcod? Mikus: has been done via OTC by DFO and margin increment by NMFS Tiburon. Jagielo: I think it would be a good idea to compare and contrast the DFO and California work. Is it in agreement? Barss: How about cabezon, kelp greenling? They are becoming more important considering the live fish fisheries along the coast. Yamanaka: Deborah Murie , a post doc who worked for Laura Richards, studied greenling and lingcod. She compared age reading of spines and otoliths.
D. Marine Reserves
Mills (WDFW): A draft of the WDFW policy on marine reserves is going out in June. Comments will be appreciated; we have relied on a version of the BC strategy. There is also an inter-agency draft strategy that went out in January. There seems to be less interest in integrating the use of MPA's from a technical perspective in Washington state as compared to BC. Little technical work has been done on the integrated management MPA, more has been done at the species complex level. That might be because the Washington state integrated coastal zone management process is not being developed at the same time as the MPA policy as it is in Canada. The Washington coastal zone management process is already on the books.
O'Connell: The Alaska Board of Fisheries closed a 4 square mile area off Cape. Edgecumbe (Sitka) to lingcod and black rockfish. The area is particularly abundant with lingcod. This area lies in federal waters. A proposal to close the area to all groundfish and halibut fishing is being advanced. The locals of Sitka support the closure. If passed by NPFMC, it will be the first no-take reserve in Alaska. O'Connell asked if other states felt they had the authority to close areas to halibut fishing, as this is the impediment to establishing MPAs in Alaskan waters.
Yamanaka: The new Oceans Act broadens the scope of DFO's mandate to include the management of Canada's ocean waters-- habitats as well as resources. The DFO's strategy promotes the initiation of integrated CZM within which MPAs are a component. Integrated coastal zone management is a new format that extends from federal and provincial agencies down to municipalities. From the standpoint of stock assessment, we view MPAs as a management tool. DFO is trying to come up with a policy for MPAs. Provincial and federal jurisdictions are coordinating efforts to come up with an umbrella framework to develop MPAs. An initial draft policy is due to go out to public review by June. Saunders: MPAs have support which has been driven additionally from outside DFO by other government and non-government groups. Policy to determine how integrated coastal zone management will be implemented is still under development. Barss: In Oregon, MPAs are under consideration, but Oregon has nothing formal to add to this discussion at this point.
Barnes: The California Marine Refugia Coordinator is Dave Parker. CDFG needs to make budget proposals to beef up research in the nearshore zone, which would include working on refugia zones. We are trying to get mileage out of two of the four reserves that were created by a legislative initiative. We are now studying certain areas to identify if any differences in abundance and composition exist between the closed areas and adjacent areas. So far, we have seen nothing as compelling as the reports from Washington --maybe because the California areas are so new. We want to do an intensive state-wide mapping project to identify nearshore rocky zones that show promise as rufugia. Mills: Refugia in the San Juan Islands, established in 1991, have shown increases in numbers of fish but not yet increases in fish size. Phillips: PFMC had a presentation on MPAs at a recent Council meeting. The Council directed the habitat group to document where current reserves are located by November for the PFMC area. This includes underwater cable areas and state rules such as the 3 mile rule in Washington. Mills: The transboundary group is putting out a document showing the location of 102 current marine reserve sites. Sanborn: NMFS has been involved with essential fish habitat requirements; Cyreis Schmitt is working on it. O'Connell: I have reviewed the Glacier Bay National Park environmetal assessment, and note that it would close areas for commercial fishing but doesn't prohibit recreational fishing. Mary Yochlovich has a new web posting about marine reserves for rockfish. Other habitat web postings are available.
E. Geographic Information Systems (GIS)
Barnes: In California, the oil spill response group has found GIS to be a very useful for terrestrial spills; we are now moving on to use it more for the marine area. Saunders noted that the DFO groundfish section is about to replace their in-house GIS technology with off-the-shelf products and found the TSC exchange of information among agencies helpful and worth continuing. A separate issue is the increasing use of habitat mapping and classification within stock assessments. There could be a role for TSC to ensure that communication takes place among technical experts from both countries. We should aim to keep an understanding of the GIS standards so we don't develop boundaries to future analyses. The TSC could serve to exchange GIS information among agencies. TSC could take an initiative in this area, particularly in habitat data. Jagielo: I don’t see the TSC as the right format for establishing standards in GIS work; that should fall to GIS specialists and is going to evolve over time as GIS specialists meet in their own forums. TSC can be a place for agencies to exchange information on their latest projects that use GIS, and what new coverages are available. Barnes: Trawl landings data don't fit well into GIS; for California, the best resolution on the catch data is the 10 x 10 minute blocks. Saunders: Accessing baseline data is the main concern, we should standardize data sets, for example bathymetric data sets. Wilkins: There is a great variation in data quality, which creates problems in merging datasets. Saunders: Going forward, we are looking at the integration of stock assessment with habitat.
F. Internet Web Pages
Handouts depicting agency home pages and web links were distributed for Oregon and NMFS-AFSC. It was noted that DFO has a new page: www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca. O'Connell: At ADFG, individual projects have been mandated to have web pages on the agency home page by the end of the year. Phillips: He will collect information from individuals to begin compiling the TSC home page, and will give it to the PSMFC webmaster. What is our objective? Discussion: It would be good to have central access to the agency documents. For example, minutes, agency reports, updates on agency activities, etc.
G. Other Discussion.
Bob Pacunski (WDFW) reviewed some Puget Sound research activities, including MPA research and in-situ rockfish and lingcod studies.
VIII. Review of Agency Groundfish Research, Assessment and Management
A. Agency Overviews
Barss: At ODFW, Jerry Butler has retired and the organization structure is in flux. There has been a large revenue shortfall. Jagielo: At WDFW, the organization is also in flux due to a large revenue shortfall. Tom Northup is retiring and at least in the interim, Greg Bargmann will take his job managing groundfish. Barnes: At CDFG, the budget is increasing and new projects are being supported. Presently, there is a good level of funding support from the legislature. There are proposals to create a population dynamics stock assessment unit, and an aging lab. There is also a very large proposal to beef up near shore finfish studies. More emphasis is now being placed on groundfish research than previously; there has been very little in the past. Saunders: How do ecosystem coordinators fit into your organization? Barnes: It is described in the California agency report; the breakout is nearshore, offshore, enclosed bays and estuaries. Eight ecosystem teams are in place. Wilkins: NMFS reorganized at high levels, with no little change at the Center working level. Sanborn: The NMFS Northwest Fisheries Science Center is now in a phase of rapid growth, with considerable new funds and lots of hiring.
B. Multispecies Studies
O'Connell: Alaska will do side-scan sonar surveys to estimate rockfish habitat which will directly effect the demersal shelf rockfish (DSR) and lingcod assessments. Sanborn: Note that three projects are described in the NMFS-NWFSC agencies report. Barss: Oregon is planning to do cooperative research with industry, including a shallow water trawl survey, which would come as shallow as 10 fm. A small project to work with black rockfish is planned. Wilkins: Thinks the nearshore trawl survey is a wonderful idea. Northup (WDFW): The Makah tribe will be cooperating with WDFW in a video acoustic study. Barnes: CDFG has found that Sea Grant is one way to get some work done that they can not get done on their own. For example, CDFG put up $50,000 and it was matched by Sea Grant to do some projects.
C. By Species
Pacific Cod
Palsson (WDFW): An anomalous aggregation of Pacific cod was observed near Neah Bay by the commercial trawl fishery, which has taken on the order of 500,000 pounds per year. Landings were restricted by WDFW to 200,000 pounds per year in 1997 and 1998.
Shelf Rockfish
Wilkins: The northern part of the distribution of Boccacio is important to look at for the age validation study. O'Connell: ADFG is developing trap methods to ground truth small fish seen by video methods at greater depths. Saunders: For the Sebastes complex assessment, are you managing the group as a complex? We have seen with our observer coverage that there is a tremendous amount of targeting on some specific rockfish, more than we would have believed. Yamanaka: We have been collecting yelloweye rockfish biological samples; about 1200 otoliths have been aged. Also, about 1000 red-banded rockfish have been aged. Samples are obtained from chartered commercial fishing vessels fishing in designated areas with standardized gear. For nearshore rockfish, we are looking at computer simulations to evaluate MPA performance under different input variables such as harvest rate, MPA size, etc.
Slope Rockfish
Saunders: I note the NMFS Alaska group did some genetics work on shortraker rockfish; did they get samples from Canada to see how BC is separate from Gulf? Wilkins: No, but samples from BC would certainly be welcomed.
Thornyheads
O'Connell: Has Diana Kline published her thesis on thornyhead age validation? Methot made a point yesterday about the importance of age validation to the thornyhead stock assessment.
Sablefish
O'Connell: The National Marine Mammal Lab has been working on sperm whale/ sablefish longline fishery interactions. The whales are predating on the longlines. Dave Carlile is continuing on his Chatham Strait study. Saunders: Some unpublished DFO work shows a depth specific related fishing mortality for fish held for tagging and for transport; Erickson's work at NMFS is of interest. Barnes: CDFG is conducting a Conception area study with traps which is a continuation of the sablefish blue tag study. The plan is to use the catch rates together with the previous trap work for stock assessment use.
Flatfish
Saunders: I note that the PFMC Dover sole assessment covers the Washington, Oregon and California area; is there a rational for including BC in that? Wilkins: The bulk of the data used in the assessment is from the slope survey which stops at the Canadian border.
Lingcod
Jagielo: WDFW has a new coded wire tag (CWT) mark recapture study going on at Cape Flattery. Initial recapture sampling in April, 1998 at Neah Bay with an R-8 tube CWT-detector has been going well. The new study design will allow us to forgo making assumptions about (or estimating) the voluntary tag reporting rate, and will potentially allow us to make estimates of fishing mortality and abundance with greater precision. Previous mark recapture data from Cape Flattery has been an important component of the PFMC lingcod stock assessment. Barnes: Lingcod recreational vs. commercial allocation is an issue. The recreational size limit was raised from 22 to 24 inches, the bag limit was left at three fish. O'Connell: Lingcod tagging is underway to look at seasonal movement of fish. The reduction in the PFMC quota for the west coast has effected Alaska; now we have more people wanting to fish for lingcod in Alaska. The current Alaska quota is set using a habitat based approach.
Pacific Whiting (Hake)
Dorn: A new model is being written in AD Model builder. Saunders: We would like to see a joint Canada-US document reviewed at one meeting next year.
Dogfish
O'Connell: We have had large catches of dogfish near Sitka lately, which are mostly of sub-market size (around 3 pounds). They aren't really utilized in Alaska; mostly seen as a bycatch with probably a high mortality. Barss: Oregon has had an improving market for fish over 4 pounds and landings increased in 1998. Do Alaska and BC fisheries have conversion factors available for dressed vs. whole fish? Trager (DFO): The DFO report provides a conversion factor used by DFO for dressed/whole dogfish landings.
Mackerel and Sardines
Barnes: Planned CDFG research includes a cruise in March that will collect histological data from females outside the of range of the fishery. Also, an idea developed at the last TSC meeting, to put a continuous egg pump on the Miller Freeman during the July-August hake hydroacoustic survey, will go forward. Saunders: There is some uncertainty about the different aggregations of sardines, particularly with regard to the northward expansion of the population; should they be treated as one stock? Barnes: In the assessment, we are counting it as one stock from Baja to BC, with migration. O'Connell: Perhaps we could have a working group to exchange Canada-US stock assessment information on sardine. Saunders: Given the potential for increasing exploitation in the Canadian zone, it might be a good idea. Stock delineation could be discussed. Barss: Oregon has been looking for mackerel out of the port of Astoria as part of a cooperative project with PMEL.
Other Species
Saunders: I note that Oregon is encouraging the development of new fisheries, for example, development of a blue shark fishery. Does Oregon have a science requirement, eg. to collect biological data, for these new fisheries? Barss: Oregon has a means to encourage orderly development of new fisheries and hopefully to protect stocks from over-development. Part of the developmental fisheries package is the requirement that fishers receiving developmental fisheries permits accommodate observers if requested to do so. Under this requirement, only a few trips have been observed. Saunders to Barss: What is done with surf perch mentioned in your report? Barss: There is an increasing interest in live perch by some processors. The sport fish biologist has been routinely collecting age samples for red-tail surf perch, but also collects samples of striped, walleye, white, silver, and calico surf perch. Extensive tagging, primarily on red-tail surf perch, is also routinely done along the southern Oregon coast (Florence to Brookings). An assessment of Oregon surf perch stocks is planned for the near future.
D. Other Related Studies
Saunders: There was an fisheries observer workshop held in Seattle last March which was very useful. One of the interesting subjects was business models for observer programs, e.g. who pays? Proceedings of the meeting should be available from Bill Karp, NMFS-AFSC.
E. Other Items
None were discussed.
IX. Progress on 1997 Recommendations
X. 1998 Recommendations
A. Recommendations From the TSC to Itself
B. Recommendations From the TSC to the Parent Committee
C. Recommendations From the TSC to CARE
The 1999 meeting of the TSC will be hosted by NWFSC at the Montlake lab by Rick Methot and Herb Sanborn. Tom Barnes of CDFG was appointed chairman for the 1999 and 2000 meetings. The TSC thanked outgoing chairman Bill Barss for a job well done.
The meeting was adjourned at 10 am, May 7th.